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[RG]Milky
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PostSubject: [Discussion of Sieges]   Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:26 am

SirMumra and I are attempting to pull up some Castle Skematics so that people would not be lost nor confused during sieges.

We are trying to pull together a full blueprint that shows where Life Control Towers are, typical defense positions, etc.

We will then be compiling a series of possible strategies for the Castles.

It would be helpful if anyone could help us compile a full blue print themselves.

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:05 pm

i've been looking for all that kinda stuff, hard to believe all i found was maps and outlines of the "castle towns".But i'll keep looking
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:24 pm

Ok so i have been looking for about 4-5 hours and I was only able to find a schematic of Gludio...it is mostly in Korean but the main names are translated

Its not bad but ill still look for the other castles.

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:36 am

Good Work, cuz Gludio,dion,Oren,and Giran all have the same castle ouline,of couse Giran is the only one that clan be seige atm.But soon i'm sure they will being more castles up as the server fills up
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:16 am

another thing that might help during castle seiges is putting people into proper groups and not just random groups
IE: Archers, bishop, WC
Melee: Tanks, Daggers, Bishop, WC
Nuker: Nukers, Bishop, EE

At least then everyone will be near the same speeds and groups wont get as dispurst as they have been during castle seiges. The last few castle seiges where pretty messy. I personally went off on my own and i know a few others did too. But castle seiges are basicly team based capture the flag style. The more WS we have the more effecient we can be taking castles also =D
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:22 am

Actually the BEST way we can prepare for sieges is to watch and study and learn from the clan Evil Council....they are by far THE BEST group of pvpers ive ever seen....

Evil Council sieging Giran with only 25 people.

that one by far would be the best one to watch...but check out the other ones they have as well. also check out the EC vs SYN...that shall get you somewhat prepared but we still need to put some party vs party fights out in the middle of nowhere to prepare...that would get us geared up and ready...maybe even take on party of 9 and zerg with the rest of the ally and see how good those teams do...and i may be getting boss set so then i can be a proper geared bishop and if i dont have to work during the sieges im always up to heal

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:55 am

Modified Version (English):



My Better Version That you should all pay attention too (English):



Common Paths to Signing Room:


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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:57 am

wow...thats impressive lol im going to keep looking for more but it is quite hard to find them...im kind of stumped on why they are so rare..

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:04 am

Vali wrote:
wow...thats impressive lol im going to keep looking for more but it is quite hard to find them...im kind of stumped on why they are so rare..

One reason might be because it took about 1 hour for me to edit/modify and upload each one... And it's only a sketch, it isn't drawn to scale... =/ I'd prefer to have one drawn to scale to tweak with... Then we'd have a real map and strategy board to play around with! =D

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:07 am

Yeah well the site it is from is in korean and of course....i have no clue what it says..even using translator website i still had no clue where to go..

Quote :
I just can not find anything in reference to castle maps....its kind of weird...im going to talk to a friend of mine which I am setup as a GM on his server to open it up so I can roam around all the castles and take some screen shots. he is in the middle of setting it up for full kamael so he has it down for now but ill see if he can put it up long enough for me to roam around a bit.

Quote :
Alright so here is the deal. The server I have GM status IS up and I AM on it right now...I will be on it for awhile I would imagine looking around the castles...if Mumra or Milky would like to get on I can port you in I should be on until maybe 4am or maybe even 6am est. It is running interlude so if you have that then awesome if not go download it somewhere and DONT update...contact me on MSN for the server info if you are interested...we can even do pvp shit on there if you guys really want to....dont think the owner would mind.

[Milky: Please don't double or triple post]

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:20 am

Vali wrote:
Alright so here is the deal. The server I have GM status IS up and I AM on it right now...I will be on it for awhile I would imagine looking around the castles...if Mumra or Milky would like to get on I can port you in I should be on until maybe 4am or maybe even 6am est. It is running interlude so if you have that then awesome if not go download it somewhere and DONT update...contact me on MSN for the server info if you are interested...we can even do pvp shit on there if you guys really want to....dont think the owner would mind.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Edit ~ If you do want to go on you will have to install interlude then update...unfortunately if you update through updater you go to Kamael SOOO i will send you the system folder changes...just contact me on msn

Edit #2 ~ Also what castles are we looking for picture wise?

Fuck man, ok here's the deal. It's 12am my time, and 3am Mumra time. We'd love to come check out the formats n shit of castles, but... as you can tell, it's fucking late. I have a 7 hours block of class tmr w/o breaks, meaning no food, no water, nothing but bathroom and notes for 7 hours. Mumra has to deal with his daughter n work tmr, so he's pretty much out too.

However, I will see if I have Interlude somewhere in my external, and if I do, then i'll check it out may-b tmr or the day after. Until then, cya around.

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:30 am

this is my sketch of aden


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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:52 am

this are strategies i propose


defending the throne room : this is basic but just so everyone knows


the right way to protect aden is from the balconies cuz there u can handle whats going on down on the casting room and the enemy cant reach u that easily


i say we hide behind that wall so our enemies get some surprise and die without knowing what hit em, tanks will be next to the door so as soon as someone goes through the door he gets trapped by the tank, and that way enemies cant hit us without getting into the reach of the tanks



ps: dont ask why i use paint! lol

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:05 am

Well any day is fine. Just contact myself or Harkin and we can get you in. We are unfortunately unable to give you guys GM status due to the owner not wanting anymore running around because he is still working on it and hopes to make it live sometime in the near future.

Quote :
lol i love the timing of the screen shots....thats my clan losing Aden! BUT we took it back yet again! AdultFilmStars FTW bitches!

[Milky: Dont double post please]

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:42 am

Okey i will give my 2 cents all through no one asked Smile

Its about Aden castle, above the throne room there are 2 balconies, one that looks inside of throne room (forget that one its practically useless except for crystal being in there) and other one thats right above the main entrance to Throne Room and its placed looking in hallway outside the Throne Room.
That one we should exploit more ... as in putting few archers to stand guard and kill from there (archers not mages, as arrows are harder to figure out from where they are comming from than flashy nuker skills), its pretty sweet spot as its not easily targeted duo to walls and celling not giving camera enough view to move around - only way to target on people up there is to type /target.
Also right way to those balconies is bugged and people cant get to balconies that way, only way is left.

Next thing i found very intriguing is that when we defend a castle we actually attacked it first instead of waiting for our enemies at the walls, also letting main gate to court yard get blown to pieces instead of defending it from the walls(Rune Castle).

Now to switch topic to last Giran siege (and yes i know we were attackers at first than we defended it), people were sitting inside Throne Room behind almost bashed doors instead of archers/mages being on walls with bishops killing zergs of ST's that were comming.

All in all it was very messy, i propose we organize like this.
Clan leaders are party leaders and they command/tell people what to do/follow them.
Party leaders that are not Clan leaders, lead their respective parties and getting direct orders via pm/vent from Clan Leader/s that were planning siege.

Dont take this as a flaming as it aint that Smile
Just trying to point to mistakes we did on last sieges Smile
Hope no one got offended by this Razz
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:51 am

no , thx a lot zoddy this is really helpfull

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:37 pm

Fatalic wrote:
another thing that might help during castle seiges is putting people into proper groups and not just random groups
IE: Archers, bishop, WC
Melee: Tanks, Daggers, Bishop, WC
Nuker: Nukers, Bishop, EE


I will have to disagree Archers and Daggers shouldn't get WC in parties but EE, cause CoV lowers speed and speed is essential to both classes, while with PoF/PoW there isnt problem in speed.

so practicly what i am suggesting is:
7 Archers/Daggers (got aprox same speeds and daggers are kind of tanks protecting the archers), Bish, EE/PP
6 Tanks/Mages (again aprox same speeds and tanks can protect mages), 2 Bish's, 1 WC

Or if you want class specific parties than it should look like this:

6 Tanks, 1 OL, 1 Bish, 1 WC
7 Archers, 1 Bish, 1 EE/PP
7 Daggers, 1 Bish, 1 EE/PP
7 Mages, 1 Bish, 1 WC

Tanks - got OL cause of cp recovery and seals, OL can move freely with tanks cause of his enormous P. Def. - Same goes for WC with Bish being only weak link in the party

Archers - got Bish that in most cases (except in defending) wont be of much use duo to Archers higher speed and EE/PP cause CoV lowers speed which daggers and archers really cant afford - Archers kite, daggers should move as fast as possible to their targets.

Mages - bish from obvious reasons and WC cause speed isnt of much importance to Mages being that almost any other class can easly catch up to them so there really aint any point in running away.

Feel free to comment on my party builds as i myself dont know how will they work.
Just tried basing them on speed and overall ability (first build that is), other one i more thought of party vs party performance than sieges but that build should work equally well in sieges as well Smile
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:05 pm

This is what I like to see!! We are planning everything out and getting organized for this Saturday!! WOOT!!
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:59 am

Zoddy wrote:
Fatalic wrote:
another thing that might help during castle seiges is putting people into proper groups and not just random groups
IE: Archers, bishop, WC
Melee: Tanks, Daggers, Bishop, WC
Nuker: Nukers, Bishop, EE


I will have to disagree Archers and Daggers shouldn't get WC in parties but EE, cause CoV lowers speed and speed is essential to both classes, while with PoF/PoW there isnt problem in speed.

so practicly what i am suggesting is:
7 Archers/Daggers (got aprox same speeds and daggers are kind of tanks protecting the archers), Bish, EE/PP
6 Tanks/Mages (again aprox same speeds and tanks can protect mages), 2 Bish's, 1 WC

Or if you want class specific parties than it should look like this:

6 Tanks, 1 OL, 1 Bish, 1 WC
7 Archers, 1 Bish, 1 EE/PP
7 Daggers, 1 Bish, 1 EE/PP
7 Mages, 1 Bish, 1 WC

Tanks - got OL cause of cp recovery and seals, OL can move freely with tanks cause of his enormous P. Def. - Same goes for WC with Bish being only weak link in the party

Archers - got Bish that in most cases (except in defending) wont be of much use duo to Archers higher speed and EE/PP cause CoV lowers speed which daggers and archers really cant afford - Archers kite, daggers should move as fast as possible to their targets.

Mages - bish from obvious reasons and WC cause speed isnt of much importance to Mages being that almost any other class can easly catch up to them so there really aint any point in running away.

Feel free to comment on my party builds as i myself dont know how will they work.
Just tried basing them on speed and overall ability (first build that is), other one i more thought of party vs party performance than sieges but that build should work equally well in sieges as well Smile

only thing i would add is would be nice to have some active buffers. so while defending you dont have to leave to buff.

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:34 am

Yeah again....www.evilcouncil.net check out the downloads section....buffing on the run...its intense

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:29 am

You guys better love me... new updated and tweaked/modified Giran Castle map(s).

The Life Control Towers/Crystals have been edited to the correct position(s).



With the height sutff implamented...



And the grand-finalee... Archer Positions (red dot) and their range (red ring). Range is based off of Hawkeye range without using snipe.



This concludes the updated mapping and blueprint... or green.

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:17 pm

For the archer positions should we use the better gear'd archers for the courtyard due to strength and Crit rates? Whoever gets in let them deal with the tanks, mages and daggers? Or should we use the gear'd people to protect the scribing room?
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:07 pm

Triphect wrote:
For the archer positions should we use the better gear'd archers for the courtyard due to strength and Crit rates? Whoever gets in let them deal with the tanks, mages and daggers? Or should we use the gear'd people to protect the scribing room?

It all depends on how many good geared archers we got, we should make protecting scribing room our main priority as after all thats where our enemies aim to get to.

Also Milky missed few archer spots, breakable walls, if walls break i don't believe they will go through main gate if all of our archers are there ...
Anyhow as for Giran, i believe its best to protect main gate to court yard from walls where npcs guards are located and after that, main gate is down we switch to places you designated, but instead protecting entrance to court yard, i bleive we should fall back and protect Throne room from the walls ... pretty simple tactic, it all comes down to what kind of tactic you really want ...
I will be editing your map soon and putting places for tanks and bish's in regard to where you placed archers, at least best position for them to be in

[Milky: Made the quote work out.]
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Fri Jan 25, 2008 11:11 pm

Yeah guys I cant stress this enough that being able to practice on another server and siege whenever we want can be very beneficial to us. I suggest everyone gets the Interlude client...

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:27 am

Actual picture of Giran Castle
Maybe you guys could make use of this?? I wasn't able to get inside the castle so only got a front gate shot.
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Sat Jan 26, 2008 4:06 am

Zoddy wrote:
Triphect wrote:
For the archer positions should we use the better gear'd archers for the courtyard due to strength and Crit rates? Whoever gets in let them deal with the tanks, mages and daggers? Or should we use the gear'd people to protect the scribing room?

It all depends on how many good geared archers we got, we should make protecting scribing room our main priority as after all thats where our enemies aim to get to.

Also Milky missed few archer spots, breakable walls, if walls break i don't believe they will go through main gate if all of our archers are there ...
Anyhow as for Giran, i believe its best to protect main gate to court yard from walls where npcs guards are located and after that, main gate is down we switch to places you designated, but instead protecting entrance to court yard, i bleive we should fall back and protect Throne room from the walls ... pretty simple tactic, it all comes down to what kind of tactic you really want ...
I will be editing your map soon and putting places for tanks and bish's in regard to where you placed archers, at least best position for them to be in

[Milky: Made the quote work out.]

The archer spots I placed are only examples and to help give you an idea of the place. Not actual positions we'll be having archers. This is to let you strategists out there think of places where Archers can be most effective.

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Sat Jan 26, 2008 5:11 am

Vali wrote:
Actually the BEST way we can prepare for sieges is to watch and study and learn from the clan Evil Council....they are by far THE BEST group of pvpers ive ever seen....

...they are some bad dudes, best clan I ever played with, when it comes to playing smart. I dont think I ever died when I was with EC, xcaliber can probably say the same.



As long as the experienced people lead, and no one says well thats stupid im gonna run off and do something else, there is no real reason we couldnt take lots of castles. One thing i see a lot of right now is mages running up to the front of a pvp, I know its fun to be in front but thats what the tanks/meat shields are for. tanks and melee up front, then OL's , and in the very back you should have all your mages and archers, picking people off. a few well place bishops who know their class, and bang, castle owners you shall become.

Basically team work is the key, like vali said watch some videos on youtube of ec, no one is trying to take on everyone, its a unit working as a unit.
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:13 pm



I will start explaining my tactic from entrance up...

First Tanks, Daggers and Bishops you see on bridge are below bridge, waiting for enemy to come in.
2nd at start of the siege main gate to court yard will be OPEN, for whats to come and to confuse enemy.
As they come in, they fall into first trap where our archers and nukers will hopefully kill them from the walls, as our tanks,daggers,archers come in and block them between 2 walls, than group below the bridge will meet them from behind and help in ganking them.
Reason why i didnt put archers on walls around, is if something goes wrong, they will be killed instantly duo to no walk away to court yard anywhere near gate ... only stairs down will be already occupied by nukers,archers and bishops
2 Daggers on the side walls must look very stupid on first look, but they are there in case enemies start breaking walls, so we know which wall is exactly under attack and how to organize.

After their first rush, we pretty much bring combat to same place, just without group to gank them from behind as same trick wont work 2 times,while archers that are on walls of Throne Room stay on their posts, in one point in time, they will break in, there is no point lying to our selfs, thats where does archers come in handy, and buy us time, while we reorganize and head back, also thats when we close the main gate to court yard to buy us time as well and open in once we are in front.

We need more organization when regrouping, and organization in middle of siege chaos needs time, thats why i putted bishops up there, so those archers can buy us as much time as possible.

Got another blueprint done about Throne Room, but that tactic is pretty straight forwarded, so it wont be up for this siege.

No point in making further tactics as war is chaos in which nothing is certain, my tactic could work just fine and buy us like 20 to 40 mins or it could fail miserbly with enemy taking castle in time said up ...
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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:52 pm

I think in the 2nd portion of your tactic, you forgot something very important... Having doors open for them to get into the courtyard = suicide. That means they will be able to go straight for our Keep/Inner Gates, which is practically the last defense before they get a straight run chance to get into the signing room. It is much easier to keep them completely outside the castle and lose inch by inch of the castle instead of letting them have half of the castle. Also, you do not need Daggers positioned on the walls, simply have a party scout the walls once every 5minutes and that will be fine. Another thing you most likely forgot, hoping it is that yo just forgot and not negated the fact that we have to take down their flags. This will be done so by ONE party, not the entire alliance. Most likely this will be done by 3gyga3's clan's party. Everyone else is to STAY INSIDE the castle and ON THE WALLS. Unless you're a tank of course, then you stand behind the doors.

It is also a stupid idea to make a wall with 3 tanks, reason? ST out donate us, our Tanks will drop like flies. Better to have 1 or 2 tanks behind the door aggroing them so that they can't hit the doors while we have archers and nukers on the walls shooting down at them so that they can't get in as fast.

By far this is better than letting them come into the courtyard. Another thing, if you think that when the enemies get into the courtyard and our archers/nukers positioned on the walls will die fast, they wont. When this happens, those archers/nukers can run out and try to look for their flags. That, or they can simply run out, making either half or all of ST's forces to chase after them. I know they will chase them because ST does not like the idea of being trapped in the courtyard between the Keep and the Walls with us on both sides shooting and attacking them. This would make it very hard for them to keep their bishop alive.

Another thing is that we HAVE TO TAKE DOWN THEIR BISHOP. If their bishop dies, they die.

Another important thing, TAKE DOWN THEIR CLAN LEADER(S) That are signed up for the siege. When they die, their entire assault will be delayed because they have to wait until the Clan Leader(s) signed up to attack come back to sign the artifact.

I have many more insights to this, I'm just too lazy to post them all up atm. Plus I needa go out to drive my dad to work then go to dentist...

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PostSubject: Re: [Discussion of Sieges]   Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:44 pm

Well point is that we make initial trap for them with gates opened.
Than we can close the gates or close them when bigger part of ally is buffing in giran duo to numerous reasons.
Only thing why i placed only 3 tanks is cause i dont know specific size of our "army".
So i had to work with as little as possible.
Also if you watched closely to legend of tactic i said Tanks not Tank ... which means more than one...
Again i would be more specific in my tactics if i knew what i got to work with...

And if we are going to send party for their flags, i propose that we send them via end exit (hole in the wall), that way, there is less chance of them being seen and practically we will out flank ST and get their flags ...
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